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| Spider-Man 3 Movie Artwork |
Speculation is a art in assembling a puzzle with a number of key pieces missing. We don't know what we don't know; great saying when we start speculating on topics like this. While we know a lot there is something we don't know that would greatly illuminate our understanding of this topic in particular.
This post turned out to be a heck of a lot longer than I originally anticipated when I started looking at 85 or so Spider-Man Cinematic Universe rumors. It may need some editing but hopefully I got it pretty clear.
This post turned out to be a heck of a lot longer than I originally anticipated when I started looking at 85 or so Spider-Man Cinematic Universe rumors. It may need some editing but hopefully I got it pretty clear.
Spiderman 3 and the Reboot
Spider-Man 3 is still technically the most expensive film ever made Columbia Pictures at $258 Million dollars budget, and a similar budget was planned for Spider-Man 4.
Columbia Pictures President Amy Pascale, at least according to Sam Raimi director of the Spider-Man Trilogy, wanted to reboot the Spider-Man Universe prior to the release of Spiderman 3 in 2007. This is a somewhat surprising revelation considering the first Spiderman film and the sequel earned a combined total of $1.6 Billion dollars in the Box Office (slightly more then $2 Billion if adjusted for inflation).
I am not aware of any official and or verified comments from Sam Raimi or the others involved; however in reading numerous interviews and articles:
- Sony / Columbia Pictures executives were shocked at the commercial success of Spider-Man 2, after seeing the film and looking at other sequels from the era significantly less, around 1/2 of what it did.
- Sony / Columbia Pictures executives saw "darker and more gritty" superhero films as the future. Amy Pascale seems to have predicted the success of Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy.
- Sony executives were very interested in using 3-D cameras and filming techniques on their tent-pole franchise. Spider-Man 4 was to be filmed in native 3-D becoming one of the first modern films filmed in 3-D.
- Sony was very worried that the cost of continuing with the same cast would sky rocket.
- Even viewed in 2006 the first Spider-Man movie special effects looked outdated and ancient in comparison to techniques and CGI in use just a half-decade later.
In contrast to what was happening at Sony and Columbia Pictures Spider-Man 3 was indeed made and released on May 4th, 2007. On RottenTomatoes.com the consensus of the reviews is: Though there are more characters and plotlines, and the action sequences still dazzle, Spider-Man 3 nonetheless isn't quite as refined as the first two.
Sam Raimi was very displeased with the end result of Spider-Man 3. In his opinion too much stuff just didn't work. Sam spent the next 3 years working on Spider-Man 4 in an effort to correct the errors of the third movie. Finally accord to Sam Raimi he told Amy Pascale "I don’t want to make a movie that is less than great, so I think we shouldn’t make this picture. Go ahead with your reboot, which you’ve been planning anyway.” Officially the movie was cancelled on January 11, 2010.
Twentieth Century Fox
In 2005 Twentieth Century Fox released the Fantastic Four and for all its problems I would like to bring attention to one aspect. Fox had the Daredevil, X-Men and Fantastic Four film rights, a conscience decision was made to make the tone of these films greatly different. Daredevil would be a hard-core PG-13, almost Rated R film. X-Men would be aimed at the older teen audience with a solid PG-13 rating. Fantastic Four would be aimed for the younger teen audience, due to the comic book violence it would be a PG-13 but the rest was supposed to very PGish. This decision was constantly in the cross hairs as Daredevil never had a hard enough edge and Fantastic Four was too campy.
The Amazing Spider-Man films
I don't want to spend too much time discussing the recent films.
Even though Sony and Columbia have talked about making Spider-Man films darker and more gritty, lets use the word realistic, that wasn't the case with either TASM film. Both films were clearly marketed towards the family or younger audience, I am not necessarily saying that's a bad plan in today's Superhero Market, rather it is not a plan that has worked well. With the success of the Darker DC films and the hard core PG-13 ratings on the other Marvel movies it had to be a conscience decision to be more lighter and airier. Just like the Fantastic Four and numerous DC properties that were aimed for a younger audience these films have not attracted a hard core following.
Beyond the obvious plot holes, which are large enough to drive a Armored Division through and no one would notice, there are several issues with the The Amazing Spider-Man films.
- Radical changes in the origin story
- Both films felt as if two directors were fighting for control
- Poor editing
- Soundtrack, background music, was way to loud and failed to create mood.
- You never truly felt immersed into the films.
Sony and the Spider-Man 2014
Sony Corporation is clearly a company that believes in reboots, hard reboots
What do we know as of November 6th 2014.
- TASM 3 has been delayed until 2018
- Venom and The Sinister Six were green lighted as stand alone projects
- Lisa Joy Nolan has been hired to develop a script for a female lead (ensemble) cast - The project is currently being referred to as the Glass Ceiling
- Marvel Comics has announced Silk (aka Spider-Girl) will be getting her own comic in early 2015
- TASM 4 has been delayed indefinitely
- Andrew Garfield is under contract for TASM3 and potentially TASM4
- Andrew Garfield is engaged to Emma Stone who portrayed Gwen Stacy
- Shailene Woodley filmed multiple scenes for TASM2 and is under contract for TASM3
- Dane Dehaan is under contract for TASM3
- High Level executives from Sony and Columbia Pictures has meet with Marvel Entertainment and Marvel Studios
- A number of new photos show Andrew with his Peter Parker high style and shaved off his beard he has been sporting most of the past year.
Some Rumors that seem to have a ring of truth
- Rumor - Andrew Garfield contract calls for him to appear in movies like Venom and the Sinister Six.
- Emma Stone is in negotiations discussions to return as the Clone of Gwen Stacy in TASM3
- Andrew Garfield has hinted that "Miles Morales was a huge moment in this character's comic book life. And I do believe that we can do that. It's something I'm really interested in figuring out; an eloquent way of coexisting, or passing on the torch," said Garfield in an interview with Comic Book Resources.
- As an aside while we talk about Miles Morales, the character (along with Silk and Spider-Woman) are not a part of the Spider-Man film IP that is controlled by Columbia Pictures. To use these characters would require an new/separate agreement between Columbia and Marvel Entertainment.
- Glass Ceiling rumors indicate a team including Black Cat, Firestar (Mutant whose rights are controlled by 20th Century Fox), Spider-Woman and or Silk.
My Take on the whole fiasco as it now stands
Sony loves reboots and retooling, I think in an effort to control the costs of already high production costs. There have been 15 reboots under the Sony/Columbia Pictures banner since 2010, more than the other 5 major studios combined. That is not counting the other half-dozen or so reboots that Sony/Columbia Pictures have in the works for the next three years. I am sure they have more than one internal discussion on rebooting Spider-Man again, however it appears that some has explained that rebooting right now is not good for business and that philosophy is now on hold.
Even though TASM and TASM have under performed in comparison to the MCU characters and the movies are on par with the X-Men Universe by Fox this is not a "good thing" for Sony. Reboots right now in todays market are generating 50% less revenue than 5 years ago according to Box Office Mojo when you look at the increase in ticket revenue 5 years ago compared to the lesser ticket revenue or decrease in sales currently happening.
Even though TASM and TASM have under performed in comparison to the MCU characters and the movies are on par with the X-Men Universe by Fox this is not a "good thing" for Sony. Reboots right now in todays market are generating 50% less revenue than 5 years ago according to Box Office Mojo when you look at the increase in ticket revenue 5 years ago compared to the lesser ticket revenue or decrease in sales currently happening.
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| Avi Arad |
When Andrew Garfield and Brian Michael Bendis spoke up about Miles Morales in April it took Avi Arad under 24 hours to respond. Considering Marvel Entertainment Special on its 75th anniversary just aired and not a single mention of Avi Arad was made I figured we were good for at least two pages of commentary in response. As of writing this post nada from either of them.
Sony and Marvel have meet and it certainly appears that Marvel has given something to Sony, a bone as it were. I am not sure exactly what it is, but something has been agreed upon.
One potential area of discussion is the possibility of using a Spider-Man action figure in the upcoming Toy-Story 4 movie. While that might be good for Spider-Man it really doesn't help Sony / Columbia.
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| Miles Morales as Spider-Man |
These rumors also suggest that Firestar, a mutant whose rights are controlled by 20th Century Fox is involved in the screenplays would suggest that an agreement with 20th Century Fox has also been agreed to.
The other option is these rumors are completely false and made up in someone's basement as he waits for his mother to call him up for supper.
The kicker to me is that Andrew Garfield has said something on the record about it. It's possible he does not know, but he would have been instructed, contractually obligated to keep his mouth shut, especially after the public reprimand from Avi Arad back in April. Not that stopped Idris Elbe last week.
If Lisa Joy Nolan is working on a female or ensemble female film for the Spider-Man Cinematic Universe, with what we know for sure today, it has to be a Black Cat centered film. Sony cannot legally use the other characters. HOWEVER, if Sony and Marvel have or were to come to an agreement the logical choice is Silk / Spider-Girl / Cindy Moon, a classmate of Peter Parker who was bitten by the same radioactive spider.
Obviously there are some issues with this version of story in the Spider-Man Cinematic Universe, but nothing that cannot be overcome.
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| Silk |
Obviously there are some issues with this version of story in the Spider-Man Cinematic Universe, but nothing that cannot be overcome.
Emma Stone and Andrew Garfield are a couple, you can either have them together or you can have Andrew Garfield (he is under contract). I highly doubt you could have Emma Stone without Andrew Garfield, wouldn't be a happy home.
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| Andrew Garfield - Nov 4 |
Andrew Garfield has been making the rounds for interviews and improved his visibility in the past two weeks. With Emma Stone performing on Broadway right now it is hard to be hidden but for six months he has kept himself out of the publics eye, two weeks ago that changed.
Why?
Is he over the negative publicity that the poor performance of TASM2 or is he making himself more visible for other reasons. With a new film about to begin filming in Japan it seems odd that he is filming stuff in New York, commercial(s) maybe.
Why?
Is he over the negative publicity that the poor performance of TASM2 or is he making himself more visible for other reasons. With a new film about to begin filming in Japan it seems odd that he is filming stuff in New York, commercial(s) maybe.
One rumor I have yet to hear but seems to be bubbling towards the surface is that Andrew Garfield's version of Spider-Man / Peter Parker will make a cameo or minor appearance in Avengers: Age of Ultron. To me this is not out of the realm of possibilities, albeit it is somewhat of a HUGE longshot of happening.
Multiple rumors have suggested that the stand alone movies Venom and the Sinister Six are on hold. There are enough of these rumors suggesting their is some validity to them. While Disney's Maleficent was a success at the Box office it wasn't a run-away success that many predicted. Was the domestic viewing audience not ready for an anti-hero superhero?
The Challenge for Sony is the order that these two films are going to made in. From a business perspective I have a hard time believing Sinister Six will be successful enough to justify moving forward with Venom. If Venom was first, as a more noted fan favorite and well known name, from a business perspective I think it would be more successful.
My believe is that at least one of these films have been cancelled, most likely Venom for all the wrong reasons.
If Sony is moving ahead with a female lead/ensemble cast such as Silk or Black Cat film Venom would be a great villain to bring immediate notoriety to this film.
In the end there is the White Elephant in the room, the downward trend of the Amazing Spider-Man Films.
There is no way around the problem facing Sony at the moment, the MCU is the biggest thing in multiple markets and the obvious way to move forward is align themselves with Marvel. I see no way around doing that.
The Avengers bump was worth $250 Million for Iron-Man 3, Thor: The Dark World, and Captain America: The Winter Soldier EACH, or what Sony earned on TASM2. The Avengers: Age of Ultron is already being looked at as the next potential $2 Billion dollar movie.
Ensemble films are currently working better than single villain vs. single villain films. Hence Captain America: Civil War has both Iron-Man and Captain America (plus others).
I wouldn't be shocked to see The Amazing Spider-Man 3 reworked into that model. Two heroes in major roles as opposed to two villains.
What do you think?
I would love to hear from people on this topic.
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